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Jenni Murray : This morning's
papers, yet again, are full again of the
McCann's, the parents whose daughter
Madeleine disappeared from their holiday
apartment in Portugal nearly a hundred
days ago. There has been a flurry of
activity this week with forensic
investigation of the only named
suspect's garden; a detailed examination
of the apartment and the discovery,
there, of what may be blood. The McCanns
have themselves would appear to be under
suspicion as their car was searched and
some of today's headlines carry their
denial that they had anything to do with
Madeleine's abduction. Well Kate McCann
has never before spoken alone in a
broadcast interview. I asked her how
she's coping with the current
developments in the investigation.
Kate McCann : Well obviously I
can't talk too much about the
investigation. Erm we're just trying to
get through one day at a time to be
honest Jenny. Erm.. some of the stuff we
are not sure about anyway, and we don't
know if it's true or not so erm (inhales
audibly at this point) we're just coping
day by day really. We've got lots of
support, erm, very close family and
friends and, as you're aware we've had a
huge support from the general public erm
and we are just trying to have....
(inhales audibly again and next bit
inaudible and said within a kind of
suppressed laugh) obviously with as
normal a life as possible for the twins
you know.
JM : 'There has been a lot of
speculation as well though that the
police have treated you and your husband
as suspects. How do you handle that kind
of very personal speculation?
KMC : 'I mean, I think you just gotta
think to yourself...(1) I mean, you need
the investigation to be thorough and,
errm, you know, we'd welcome that
really, errm, (short pause) you know...
you know, we've got a very good working
relationship with the Portuguese police
and, errr, we've come a long way since
the beginning of the investigation.
(Inhales audibly) And I mean, the police
were very open at the beginning saying
everybody is a suspect and I think
that's often the case in, in many crimes
as well.
JM : And yet of course, now it seems
that the detailed forensic examination
is only beginning to happen now and you
know things like details of blood in the
apartment are just coming to light now
and are all over the British press at
the moment. (Loudly inhales) Why do you
suppose that sort of forensic
examination is coming so late – 3 months
after Madeleine disappeared?
KMC : (Inhales loudly and for a few
seconds) I'm sorry Jenny, I can't, I
can't really talk too much about the
investigation. Erm obviously with
judicial secrecy and we are witnesses to
a crime so.. I don't want to do anything
that might jeopardise the investigation
and so jeopardise Madeleine so er it
would probably be best if we can veer
away a little bit from the
investigation.
JM : How do you deal though with the
discovery of new forensic details;
stories of, you know, children being
spotted in various different parts of
Europe; people taking DNA evidence from
glasses in case it was Madeleine. How
are you dealing with that on a
day-to-day basis?
KMC : (Longish pause) If I'm honest, we
don't read the papers very often (small
kind of suppressed laugh) erm.. and
that's largely because at the beginning
erm anything we did read or anything we
watched on the television, there's so
much speculation (inhales audibly) and
speculation is upsetting and it doesn't
help us. You know so we try and veer
away really. (Inhales audibly) Erm, the
good thing that I'd say about the
sightings, I mean we don't hear about
them all Jenny, but the good thing is it
just, it says to us that people are
still looking and that's really
important, so we'd encourage that.
JM : What do you remember Kate of the
last day that you spent together as a
family?
KMC : (Longish pause and than a large
intake of breath and tongue clicking
noise) I mean we'd had a brilliant
holiday, we'd had a really good time.
The kids had had a fantastic time,
Madeleine herself had had a ball.
(Inhales audibly) Erm (exasperated sigh)
again I can't go into specifics about
the actual day but erm you know
Madeleine was very happy, we hadn't done
anything out of the norm of that week.
Erm.. you know, she was just very happy
really. You know my last memory of her
is of her being very happy.
JM : We've read that she told you what a
wonderful time she'd had that day (Kate
says "Yeh" in background). How important
is it for you to hold onto?
KMC : Well that's, that's really
important. I mean, I mean it was obvious
to me that she'd had a really good week
anyway. Erm.. t just so happened that on
the Thursday she said that it was the
best (emphasises on the word 'best') day
of the week she'd had. Erm and you know
she was quite tired but she was happy
and tired. And er.. that's how I
remember Madeleine.
JM : 'Was she sleeping when you left
her?'
KMC : (Long pause and huge intake of
breath) 'Errm, yes, she was, yeah'. (2)
JM : Lots of people will have asked you
this question; you will have gone over
this question in your mind over and over
again, but why did (emphasise on the
'why' and 'did') you think that night
that three such young children would be
safe, alone in the apartment, whilst you
went out?
KMC : (Audible intake of breath) I mean,
it's a good question Jenny and it's not
like I don't keep going over that in my
head, but I think the fact that I went
for dinner ..erm and obviously we were
checking on them very regularly erm
(inhales audibly) says to me I obviously
felt it was incredibly safe. If I'd have
had to think for one second (emphasizes
on the word "second") whether that was
okay, it wouldn't have happened. Erm now
why did I feel it was that safe, I can
only assume, I mean I don't know if
you've been out to Praia da Luz, it's a
very happy erm.. calm.. erm.. place, and
it actually feels incredibly safe. I
mean I've never been to Portugal before
but a lot of my friends and family have
and they go because it's a
family-friendly place (inhales audibly)
and I can only assume that, possibly I
was lulled into a false sense of
security, I don't know, but (does a kind
of tongue clucking noise, then inhales
audibly) you know everybody knows, we..
we were dining very closely to where
they were, we were checking them very
regularly, and (voice raise here like it
takes on a more positivity tone to it)
the reason that we were (then tone
returns to as before) checking them
regularly Jenny was just in case
(emphasise on the words 'just incase'
very fervently) somebody woke up, which
they don't usually do, I mean I never
thought for one minute – and who would –
you know, think for one minute that
something as awful as this would happen.
JM : How did you discover that she
wasn't there?
KMC : (Longish pause then tongue
clicking noise) Again, I can't go
(suppressed sounding laugh) into too
many details, but obviously when I went
back to check on them, erm.. she wasn't
there. (Kate goes on to say "And I knew"
but Jenny has started her next question)
JM : What was your first thought, what
did you think immediately had happened?'
(Upon discovering that Madeleine wasn't
there)
KMC : (Pause, then the tongue clicking
sound) Well, obviously I kind of looked
and double looked and, errm, you know,
obviously, there was twenty seconds of,
you know, she must be there (suppressed
sort of laugh). Errm, but there was no
doubt in my mind within (suppressed sort
of laugh) probably thirty seconds, errm,
that Madeleine had been taken from that
room. I can't go into the reasons why I
thought that but it was... no doubt
whatsoever. And Madeleine wouldn't have
walked out herself. I know that (the
words 'I know that' spoken with an air
of complete cocksuredness about them).
(3)
JM : We've read repeatedly that you are
someone who really does hate being in
the public eye – you're a very private
sort of person – why then did you and
your husband launch (emphasise put here
on the word 'launch') such a high
profile publicity campaign after
Madeleine disappeared?
KMC : I mean.. what, what, what you said
about me, Jenny, is absolutely true. I
mean I don't like – you know when you
say "public eye" I mean I don't
particularly like having my photograph
taken; I don't like doing interviews; I
don't like doing presentations but
(inhales audibly) it's not about me – do
you know what I mean – it's not about
me, it's not about Gerry, it's about
Madeleine and we will d (inhales
audibly)o absolutely anything and
everything which we think might help
find Madeleine – help find Madeleine
(inhales audibly) and, you know, we
don't know if we've done the right thing
we've just done what we felt was the
right thing to do and that was to
publicise Madeleine's disappearance and
try and get as many people looking as
possible. And if that means I have to
put myself in the public eye then I have
to get over that and do it.
JM : But how much do you worry, as some
people have suggested that it may be
counter-productive, that it could
motivate her abductors to hide her away?
KMC : (Longish pause, sigh) I mean we
always knew, ermm, there was a slight
risk of that, and to be honest Jenny, I
mean, everything we've done since
Madeleine was taken has a slight risk,
and I mean, that's, that's a horrible
situation to be in, to be having to take
risks and to think that something you,
you do could possibly jeopardise her,
but, you know we had to make a decision
and.. (intake of breath).. we couldn't
sit and do nothing and we honestly felt
that it's the best thing to do. And
what, what, what we have heard recently
from NICMEC, the National Centre for
Missing and Exploited Children, in
Washington, was they totally backed what
we've done, they've said 100% you have
done the right thing. An.. and their
experienced. (pause and tongue
clicking).. .
JM : Why do you .... (Kate continues
with the last answer but what she says
is inaudible – and Jenny carries on
asking her question anyway) .. do they
think it, why do they think it's the
right thing?
KMC : Ermm, well, just, just, for an
example, I mean obviously NICMEC see,
ermm, you know, the good stories as well
as the bad, and, you know, they're
involved in children that are actually
retrieved, and one in six of those
children that are retrieved is because
somebody's recognised the poster of that
child. (deep intake of breath) You know
NICMEC have been, you know, been going
for twenty four years now, and there's a
huge number of err, abductions, it's
very sad there's a huge number of
abductions in, in America, so they have
got a great deal of experience.
JM : Why did you choose to stay in
Portugal?
KMC : (Long Pause and then an intake of
breath) For me, err, And I know there
may be possibly no logic attached to it
(half a laugh or a smiling hmmph here) I
just feel a bit closer to Madeleine
here, ermm, and obviously we're closer
to the investigation here. (intake of
breath) Ermmm, I know some of that might
sound a little bit (short intake of
breath) bizarre, I don't know, but ermm,
you know, because we, we don't know
where Madeleine is? She could be
anywhere, ermm, and there's no reason to
say that she's closer to me here in
Portugal than if I was in the UK. Ermm,
I mean, I'm also aware that there's
things that practically, err, might be
easier err, at home, but, if, er er..
it's just a gut feeling really, and at
the moment this is the right thing for
us to do. I don't know how we'll feel
(long pause)..
JM : Do..do you.. (Kate continues her
previous reply)
KMC : ..in a month's time or you know
later.
JM : What about the twins though? I
wondered how worried you might be that
your focus is so much on Madeleine and
perhaps not quite enough on the younger
children.
KMC : (Long pause and then a clicking
sound) I mean, Sean and Amelie you know,
but we're very aware of their needs and
you know the first four or five days,
you know, it was, it was very difficult
to us, to erm, to function, ermm,
(intake of breath) and obviously we were
very reliant on family, family then, to,
to, to help us with the twins as well.
Err, I mean, the huge emotional and
physical impact, that sort of acute
grief reaction had, is, you know,
indescribable really. (Intake of breath)
Ermm, but now we.. we spend a HUGE
amount of time with the twins, I mean,
they, you know, they certainly wouldn't
get to spend this amount of time with
Gerry if we were at home and he was
working. (intake of breath) Ermm, you
know, they, they go to the kids' club in
the morning for a couple of hours, which
is a little bit like the nursery at home
and they get to do lots of creative
things as well as sort of swimming and
things like that. (intake of breath) We
tend to spend the whole afternoon with
them and the evening until they go to
bed. So any work or meetings that we
have, get done in the morning or late in
the evening. Ermm, but they.. they're
very, very happy, they've always been
surrounded by a loving, protective
family and friends if we're not there.
And we've taken professional advice as
well, just to check that everything
we're doing for them is, is thought to
be correct.
JM : How have you explained to them what
might have happened to Madeleine?
KMC : (Clicking noise and large intake
of breath) We haven't had to to be
honest, I mean, they.. they've only just
turned two and a half, ermm, ermm, you
know, and they.. they don't have any
concept of time. I mean they're very
aware that Madeleine isn't there. Ermmm,
and they, they, they have commented that
they miss her, errmm, and obviously
the... there's photographs of Madeleine,
you know, around the accommodation. We
talk about Madeleine a lot, err, they
refer to Madeleine's things, you know,
sort of Madeleine's bag, Madeleine's
Cuddle Cat, and they include her in
their play. You know, they'll say a
biscuit for Sean, a biscuit for Amelie,
a biscuit for Madeleine. Ermm, but we
haven't at this stage had to go into any
details and, to be fair Jenny, we
haven't actually got (short pause) a
story we can tell them at the moment,
because we don't know what's happened to
Madeleine. All that I've said to them is
that we're, you know, we.. we're looking
very hard for Madeleine, but even things
like that, that, you know, it's a split
second thing and then they're off
playing with Noddy or you know, whoever.
You know, they don't, they don't dwell
on it, they're actually very happy and
don't appear distressed at all.
JM : How hard is it for you though when
they seemed to be reacting as if
Madeleine in any way is still there?
KMC : (Pause, clicking noise, intake of
breath) I mean sometimes it does catch
me, obviously, ermm, you know, if it's
sort of unexpected and they suddenly
start talking about her, ermm, ermm, but
I, but I'm pleased they're talking about
her, I don't want them to forget
Madeleine I want them to, you know, for
Madeleine to remain very much in their
memory, so ermm, (clicking noise) yeah,
occasionally it catches me, but it's
good that they're talking about her I
think.
JM : It seemed to those of us looking
on, as if it it's been an incredibly
hectic time for you when some people
might think you.. you know.. I might
have just wanted to retreat home. You've
been travelling the world, how helpful
is the activity?
KMC : (long pause then intake of breath)
I mean I think it does help. I mean
there's, you know, we discovered from
the minute that we realised that
Madeleine had gone, how awful,
helplessness feels. Ermm so we've
basically just tried to stay focused and
positive and think of, and take advice,
but think of anything that we feel MIGHT
benefit (big emphasise on the words
'might' especially and also 'benefit')
ermm, you know, of, of us finding
Madeleine really. Errmm and obviously by
keeping active by publicising her
disappearance ermm we've felt we've done
that, certainly for Gerry ermm.. he's
been, he's coped much better when he's
been doing something, when he's been
focused.
JM : And what effect has it had on your
relationship with your husband? I mean
especially if he's the one especially
whose benefiting from going, rushing
around the World and you're at home with
the children?
KMC : Yeah, I mean, to be honest I
haven't been on many trips Jenny when
we've been separated. I mean I know he
went to Washington, but that was only a
few days, and obviously at home Gerry
has to go to conferences and stuff, so
there isn't, there's nothing out the
normal here from that point of view. Err
we're lucky that we've got a very strong
relationship, we've always had a strong
relationship, and ermm I mean
communication's always been important
for us and we're well aware that it's
vital at the moment. Ermm you know,
we've got strengths and weaknesses you
know, we reach different points at
different times I guess, but we're
managing to keep together and pull each
other through when we need to.
JM :And how do those strengths and
weaknesses balance themselves out? I
mean, what, what strengths and
weaknesses does Gerry have and what
strengths and weaknesses do you have?
KMC : (A very long pause, clicking noise
and intake of breath) Ermm, I mean, you
know, as I've mentioned before, sort of
Gerry's strengths, he's used to speaking
in public, ermm and he handles that very
well, ermm. (heavy sigh) Mine? I don't
really like talking about my strengths
too much (bit of a laugh) but, ermm you
know, I mean I'm happy kind of doing you
know, some.. some of the ... kind of
perhaps the domestic stuff, as well, you
know, the cooking. Ermm I mean the
important thing really is whatever we've
done we tend to.. to pair up as a team.
Ermm you know when Gerry went to
Washington we felt it was better that
one person went rather than both of us.
Ermm but it was vital for us to kind of
..(intake of breath).. keep in, ermm,
contact regularly throughout that time.
So often, we were on the phone three or
four times a day just so I could be
aware of, you know, who Gerry was
meeting, what was getting discussed, or
if there was anything that between us we
needed to decide we could (intake of
breath) And I think we're a very good
and equal partnership really.
JM : How do you get through the time
between the frantic activity, the quiet
times and the nights?
KMC :Yeah, ermm, they often are as I
say, very much with, with err.. with
Sean and Amelie. So, (heavy sigh) you
know, we're usually playing with them,
sort of role play or reading stories or
you know we're go for a walk, or they'll
go for a swim or something, so, I mean
that's, you know, very much as normal as
we're going to get at the moment. Ermm
evenings usually you.., you know,
they're going to bed a little bit... the
twins are going to bed a little bit
later than would be normal at home.
Ermm, (clicking noise and intake of
breath) so, often we just kind of, ermm
we have the usual night-time stories and
then as I say once.. once they've gone
to bed, we'll usually get on and do a
little bit more work really.
JM : Do you sleep at night?
(There's a bit of overlap here – Kate is
still answering the last question when
Jenny poses this question.)
KMC : We tend to, we tend to have.. Yeah
(this seems to be an acknowledgement
that she heard the next question) ..
dinner together, certainly still
lunchtimes and evening meals are spent
together as a family. And I describe
those as very normal. (intake of breath)
Ermm sleeping through the night? Yes, I
do actually. I mean, the first four or
five days was ermm. (clicking noise) I
didn't sleep really, ermm as I mentioned
earlier it was very hard to.. to
function at all. Ermm but now I'm fine
actually, I don't.. I'm usually quite
tired to be honest by the time we get to
bed. But I haven't had any problems
sleeping.
JM : How much hope do you still have
that you will find Madeleine alive?
KMC :(Long pause, tongue clicking,
intake of breath) I do still have hope
Jenny, in fact I probably have more hope
now than I did right at the beginning.
Ermm it's also very important to hang on
to that hope really. I mean it's so
important to stay focused and positive
and (sigh) you know, we haven't had any
news to the contrary that Madeleine
isn't alive, you know, and that.. and
that's very important (intake of breath)
and there have been many cases of
children that have been found, ermm much
later than this, so again that's
reassuring. So the hope's still there.
JM :And at what point do you think you
and Gerry will have to accept that it's
time to come home and pick up the
pieces?
KMC : (intake of breath) Again I don't
know, I mean that's very much a day by
day, week by week thing really. And I
can only (intake of breath) think that
when the time is right, I'll know.
Certainly, at the moment it feels right
to be here. But, as I say, things might
change and suddenly it'll be right to be
at home. It's very, very.. a very
difficult one to predict really.
JM : 'And how will you deal with the
guilt that will probably stay with you
forever of having left Madeleine alone?'
KMC : (Very long pause, tongue clicking,
intake of breath) I have actually come
to terms a little bit with... with that,
Jenny, I mean, you know (intake of
breath) .. I know the, errm, I know the
situation that we were in that night and
uh, I've said all along, I didn't feel I
was taking a risk. Errm, yeah, I... I do
feel desperately sorry I wasn't with
Madeleine at that minute when she was
taken. Errm, I'd also like to mention
I've had so much support from so many
people. I've had so many letters and
comments sent me.. sent to me from other
families, and particularly other mums
saying, you know, we have done what you
have done a hundred times over, do not
blame yourself. Ermm (clicking noise)
and certainly, when I'm in my car and
have rational moments Jenny, I know how
much I love my children, and I'm I know
how responsible I am, and that's what I
have to hang on hang on to really. (4)
JM : And what.. when you look at the
sort of work that Gerry's done,
particularly in America, and there's
sort of people you've been in contact
with who have real expertise in these
matters, what sort of lessons can be
learned from what's happened to you?
KMC : (Very long pause, tongue clicking,
intake of breath, then a very loud sharp
exasperated sigh) I mean, I think it,
it's important that the general public
are informed really, as the scale of the
problem you know. I'd like to think I'm
a fairly well-read person and, ermm I
was horrified really of, you know, the
things that I've learnt about since this
happened. Ermm, ....
JM : (Interrupts Kate's answering) What
sort of things are you horrified by?
KMC : The scale of the problem, err. the
number of children that are abducted,
ermm you know the for example, just I
mean I think the problem that we have a
little bit in Europe is there's just the
statistics aren't all there basically.
Ermm but I, I had some statistics passed
on to me from PACT, which is err Parents
and Abducted Children Together, and in
England and Wales alone, and that's just
England and Wales, ermm sort of the
2002/2003 year, there were a thousand,
ermm attempted stranger abductions
(clicking noise). Now, a hundred of
those just under 10% of those, ermm,
were (does a kind of tongue clicking
noise) actual abductions. I don't like
to use the word successful even though I
think that's probably the word that's
used, but a hundred children were taken
by strangers. (pause – gathers herself
then carries on in a matter of fact
manner/way to fishish the sentence) And
as I say, a thousand were attempted. I
mean, I, I think that's huge just for
England and Wales. And we don't know
what the scale of the problem is in
Europe. Ermm.I think it's really
important that people, parents, know
these kind of things and just to take
extra care. I mean, hopefully, what you
know.. we'll be able to do things that
might change some of these things. That
might improve things, make the world a
little bit safer for children, but in
the meantime I think parents should be
aware really and just take extra care.
JM : And what sort of lessons do you
think authorities need to learn from the
way, what happened to you was handled?
KMC : (Long pause, clicking noise,
intake of breath) Ermm I think they need
to be (exasperated sharp sigh) err, have
systems in place across Europe, really,
for a, a quick response to a child
that's gone missing, and particularly a
child that's been abducted. Ermm and it
probably needs to be a Europe-wide
response. Ermm there's other things as
well. I think all Countries in Europe
should have a Sex Offenders Register,
and probably, ermm CRB checks should be
in place throughout Europe. I mean a lot
of what I've learned to make compari...
comparisons with are obviously, err the
information that's come from the States.
And, err they do seem to be a little bit
ahead, quite a bit ahead rather, ermm
with reacting to situations like this.
JM : What's next for you now, Kate? Er I
mean, I know you don't want to go into
any details of how the current
investigation is all forensic
discoveries, but immediately now, where
do you go from here?
KMC : (Long pause, clicking noise,
intake of breath) Well you know, I just
hope Jenny.... you know, every day I'm
hoping that we don't get to the next
one. And, I mean it's true when I say we
really just try and deal with it one
day, ermm and then the next ermm and
take it as it comes really. I mean, you
know, I don't feel I can go through
anything worse than this in my life, you
know, so, I feel I can probably handle
most things now.
JM : Whenever we see you in a picture,
you're you're carrying Madeleine's toy
with you. How important is that that you
keep that close?
KMC : You know Cuddle Cat. Cuddle Cat's
with me now actually (low laugh) at the
moment. I mean, Cud.. Cuddle Cat was..
is very special to Madeleine, and, ermm
she took it to bed every night and she
tended to have it if she was feeling
tired or if she was feeling unwell. And
because it was special to Madeleine,
it's special to me. And, ermm you know,
it does provide me with a little bit of
comfort.
JM : I was talking to Kate McCann. |
